MoneyLA
2003-10-27 01:42:10 UTC
I had a very negative experience at Bellagio early Saturday morning -- an
incident that I brought to the attention of my craps host, who in turn referred
me to management. Management investigated and has called me to tell me that I
was correct, their table crew was wrong, and they were sorry, and thanked me
for bringing the matter to their attention. But, I'm afraid that the damage
has been done and I will not be returning to Bellagio.
Here is what happened.
I was playing alone at a $25 table in the early hours, and I was betting full
odds (3-4-5) and started with $130 or $135 across. I had a hefty bankroll with
me, and when I sevened-out I rolled again and loaded up the bets again.
Clearly, I was not a "casual" passline only better, but a serious player.
I was also losing. But losing comes with the territory and I was still a
pleasant player.
But when there was a crew change, the new stickman "got on my case."
As you know from my posts, I am a dicesetter. And on this night I was using
the cross-6s. The stickman berated me for setting dice, and then demanded that
I "hit" the backwall with both dice. On the few throws I didn't hit the back
wall with both dice -- and I mean "FEW", I said I was sorry and also said I was
aware of the rules -- that I must hit the backwall each and every time.
In fact, some times when one die did not hit, I would seven out -- and there
was no comment from the stickman, the boxman or even me. I accepted the roll.
But now, as I was having a good "roll," pressing my bets and the numbers were
coming -- the stickman let me have it.
"If you set your dice, you must hit the back wall. I know what you guys do --
you go to school to learn those throws, well here you must hit the back wall or
the throw will not count," he barked at me.
The boxman nodded in agreement. "You must hit the back wall everytime, if you
set your dice, that's the rule."
I told them I agree with their rule, and I would hit the backwall.
Next throw: I set the dice, and a gentle lob, and the dice rolled to the back
wall. In fact, they stopped LEANING on the back wall.
"No throw!" the stickman yelled.
We then got into a lively discussion -- I said the dice hit the backwall and
the proof was before their eyes. My argument went on deaf ears. No payoff on
the number, and the dice were returned to me.
I threw them again, and same result -- dice left leaning against the back wall.
"No throw." And the dice were returned to me again.
I protested. The stickman and boxman were in agreement -- not a valid throw.
"Why?" I asked, "they hit the backwall?"
No -- I was told -- NOT a valid throw because the dice must BOUNCE OFF THE BACK
WALL BY SEVERAL INCHES.
No payoff, the dice are returned to me, and I threw again.
Same result -- dice come to rest against the back wall. Again -- and this time
more heatedly -- the stickman and the boxman are all over me.
"We are told by management that with a dicesetter the dice must bounce back by
several inches."
"Bounce back? I never heard of such a thing," I protested.
That's when a floor supervisor at another table looked over to my table and
said to the stickman -- "the rolls are good. Pay the rolls."
The stickman then started to argue with the supervisor.
The supervisor, in simple words (a hice looking woman, by the way) told him to
shut up. And she continued, "if they pass the prop box they are valid rolls."
The dice are passed back to me, and this time I threw them hard, and they flew
all over the table. 4-1 was the result, and I won my point. I colored up and
moved to another table. No tip either, which many of you know is unusual since
Im a healthy tipper.
This is the story I told the craps host, and later to a shift supervisor.
Sunday afternoon, that same shift supervisor called to say that he checked out
my story, spoke with the floor supervisor, and told me that the crew in
question will be getting some re-instruction about rules and dealing with
customers.
Frankly, it's a liitle too late.
Im going to stay at my regular haunts from now on.
cheers, alan
incident that I brought to the attention of my craps host, who in turn referred
me to management. Management investigated and has called me to tell me that I
was correct, their table crew was wrong, and they were sorry, and thanked me
for bringing the matter to their attention. But, I'm afraid that the damage
has been done and I will not be returning to Bellagio.
Here is what happened.
I was playing alone at a $25 table in the early hours, and I was betting full
odds (3-4-5) and started with $130 or $135 across. I had a hefty bankroll with
me, and when I sevened-out I rolled again and loaded up the bets again.
Clearly, I was not a "casual" passline only better, but a serious player.
I was also losing. But losing comes with the territory and I was still a
pleasant player.
But when there was a crew change, the new stickman "got on my case."
As you know from my posts, I am a dicesetter. And on this night I was using
the cross-6s. The stickman berated me for setting dice, and then demanded that
I "hit" the backwall with both dice. On the few throws I didn't hit the back
wall with both dice -- and I mean "FEW", I said I was sorry and also said I was
aware of the rules -- that I must hit the backwall each and every time.
In fact, some times when one die did not hit, I would seven out -- and there
was no comment from the stickman, the boxman or even me. I accepted the roll.
But now, as I was having a good "roll," pressing my bets and the numbers were
coming -- the stickman let me have it.
"If you set your dice, you must hit the back wall. I know what you guys do --
you go to school to learn those throws, well here you must hit the back wall or
the throw will not count," he barked at me.
The boxman nodded in agreement. "You must hit the back wall everytime, if you
set your dice, that's the rule."
I told them I agree with their rule, and I would hit the backwall.
Next throw: I set the dice, and a gentle lob, and the dice rolled to the back
wall. In fact, they stopped LEANING on the back wall.
"No throw!" the stickman yelled.
We then got into a lively discussion -- I said the dice hit the backwall and
the proof was before their eyes. My argument went on deaf ears. No payoff on
the number, and the dice were returned to me.
I threw them again, and same result -- dice left leaning against the back wall.
"No throw." And the dice were returned to me again.
I protested. The stickman and boxman were in agreement -- not a valid throw.
"Why?" I asked, "they hit the backwall?"
No -- I was told -- NOT a valid throw because the dice must BOUNCE OFF THE BACK
WALL BY SEVERAL INCHES.
No payoff, the dice are returned to me, and I threw again.
Same result -- dice come to rest against the back wall. Again -- and this time
more heatedly -- the stickman and the boxman are all over me.
"We are told by management that with a dicesetter the dice must bounce back by
several inches."
"Bounce back? I never heard of such a thing," I protested.
That's when a floor supervisor at another table looked over to my table and
said to the stickman -- "the rolls are good. Pay the rolls."
The stickman then started to argue with the supervisor.
The supervisor, in simple words (a hice looking woman, by the way) told him to
shut up. And she continued, "if they pass the prop box they are valid rolls."
The dice are passed back to me, and this time I threw them hard, and they flew
all over the table. 4-1 was the result, and I won my point. I colored up and
moved to another table. No tip either, which many of you know is unusual since
Im a healthy tipper.
This is the story I told the craps host, and later to a shift supervisor.
Sunday afternoon, that same shift supervisor called to say that he checked out
my story, spoke with the floor supervisor, and told me that the crew in
question will be getting some re-instruction about rules and dealing with
customers.
Frankly, it's a liitle too late.
Im going to stay at my regular haunts from now on.
cheers, alan